My Monster Hunter game

[Nex]

At some point in the near (6 month) future, i'm planning on starting a GURPS
Monster Hunter game for my local table top group, and while I have a lot of
player experiance, this will be my first try at GMing. And to top things
off, all my players are GURPS-Newbies.

Anyway, i'm wondering if anyone with some GURPS GMing experiance would like
to share any tips and/or suggestions? I'll just tell you all my plans, and
see what you think of them.

150 point characters, -45 in disads, -5 in quirks. Limited cinematic
(highly limited, just to give the characters a bit more of a chance against
the Unholy Hordes they'll be combating), limited psionics and magic allowed
(i'm unsure whether to use the standard magic system, or Voodoo. Ritual
magic would fit the game better, but its more difficult for the newbies to
grasp and less useful when killing monsters).

The PCs will be a small group of hunters living and working in a fictional
new-england city, working under the care of a pair of (married) retired
hunters. Since the PCs are working in secret, they'll have to cut back on
the gunfights and property damage, or they'll quickly be arrested and/or
shot by the local police.

Ok, so, what do you all think? Anything I should be cautious about? Any
suggestions?

Thanks

[Wolfie]

'ware the gullet snakes. They'll getcha if you don't watch out for em.

Every GM be needn' ta know that.

[Tracy Soldan]

Are you experienced with GURPS? Some of the biggest rules misinterpretations
(and arguments) I've ever experienced were in groups where no one was
familiar with the game mechanics. This is less of an issue if you've all
gamed together for some time, which it sounds like you have.

150 points sounds a bit high if all the players are new to GURPS...too much
room for abusive/broken/ineffective characters character concepts. 150 is
where elite soldiers such as Special Forces and SEALs start out, for
example, and they have years of intensive training. Not that it's a bad idea
for Monster Hunters to have 150 points, mind you!

Is it a horrific Monster Hunters, or more lighthearted ala "The Fearless
Vampire Hunters?" (Lighthearted in the situations the heroes found
themselves in, not as in a comedy--the heroes may dance a minuet with a room
full of unaware [at first] vampires, but the young hero gets vampirized at
the end of the movie.)

Voodoo intrigued me, but I never "got" it...it just never clicked for me.
I'd use "standard" Magic rules, but if you feel you've got a good handle on
Voodoo, more power to you!

How about this: give them a "tryout" mini-campaign in your game world before
starting the campaign for real. Offer them some 100/-20/-0 templates with 40
or 50 unspent points and the option to take more disadvantages and some
quirks. Set the tryout sessions in another place and/or time that isn't too
far removed from the main campaign's. Say four sessions, one each of
combat-heavy, social interaction, stealth and research, and mystery/horror;
each one should have elements of all four types while emphasizing one in
particular. Make sure you let them know that the tryout is lower-powered and
meant to give them some experience with GURPS and your campaign world. You
should get an idea of how the players will handle the setting, and give the
players some experience with the game mechanics. Trust me, unless your
players are remarkably sensible, they'll try things that work in other game
systems but don't in GURPS, and you need to give them a chance to see what
works and what doesn't for themselves. If they don't like the mechanics or
setting, you can gracefully close out. And you can occasionally drop bits of
their tryout experiences into the campaign for flavor! (Of course, if they
*really* like it, you have the option of making the mini-campaign the
for-real one!)

One thing to pay close attention to is the rate of Experience Point awards
(page B184). If you envision a high probability of character death, give
them base awards worth 2-5 XP per session; if the probability is lower, set
it at 1-3 per session. Note that I said "...awards worth..." While
characters should always get XP for self-improvement (unless They Screw Up
Real Bad), there are lots of useful things that can be given directly to
players other than raw XP. For starters, Reputation (starting at 7-), Allies
(starting at 6-), Claim To Hospitality, Contacts, Favors, stuff (Trading
Points For Equipment), and hard cash (1 pt = 1 month's income) are all
possible. You can also save up XP for them and surprise them with something
bigger--the character that always seems to make his Fright Checks even
though his Will is low is awarded Composed after standing up to a
particularly frightful nasty, for example.

Something to keep in mind is that a 100/-40/-5 character with 50 earned XP
is nearly always going to be more effective than a newly-created 150/-40/-5
character. Chances are the one that earned 50 XP will have made Contacts,
will have a few Favors owed to him, will have developed skills that directly
affect his profession and advocation, possibly will have bought off some
Disadvantages, and generally will fit into the game setting much better than
the new character.

Also, remember that "defeating" a Monster doesn't necessarily mean
"killing/destroying" it. Returning that mummy's looted funerary goods and
sealing his tomb back up is more likely to put it to rest than making dust
puff up each time you shoot it.

And finally, when things are going in a direction that will cause problems
with creating a good story for the players, remember the old maxim:
"When in doubt, roll and shout!"
I.e., don't be afraid to fudge/cheat if it'll preserve the storyline! :)

[James Duncan]

I've never run this sort of game but if I ever get back into GMing again
that's sort of where I want to go. Of course, it will be more like a team
of privately funded slayers based in a Conspiracy/Illuminati/BlackOps
setting. Think Buffy the Vampire Slayer (TV, not movie) meets Highlander
(TV series not movie) with Blade (movies), Men in Black (less humorous), and
X-Files tossed in. OK, I degress.

Post by Tracy Soldan
Are you experienced with GURPS? Some of the biggest rules

misinterpretations

Post by Tracy Soldan
(and arguments) I've ever experienced were in groups where no one was
familiar with the game mechanics. This is less of an issue if you've all
gamed together for some time, which it sounds like you have.

Make sure you have GURPS Basic and the two compendiums on hand. It's worth
the cost as a GM. Also be sure to check out the GURPS FAQ (
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/ ) covers lots of common rules people tend
to get wrong.

Post by Tracy Soldan
150 points sounds a bit high if all the players are new to GURPS...too much
room for abusive/broken/ineffective characters character concepts. 150 is
where elite soldiers such as Special Forces and SEALs start out, for
example, and they have years of intensive training. Not that it's a bad idea
for Monster Hunters to have 150 points, mind you!

I think 150 is fine IF you want a team of true hero types AND you place some
restrictions on them.

1. Require a HT of 12+. This goes a long way in keeping characters from
getting killed easily due to missed health rolls. Of course, they still need
to be intelligent and take proper precautions -- dodge, use armor, avoid
getting hit (especially with firearms). Don't allow ST below 9 unless the
character concept REALLY calls for it. Since it sounds like you are
shooting for a cinematic style game, use the Enhanced ST table for strong
characters, otherwise they really get short changed.

2. Limit the starting magic and psionics to what's in the Basic set
(although for point cost and rules, use the most current ones which are
found in Magic and Psionics if you have those books).

3. Don't let mages and psions be too powerful. It's not by the book, but I
usually let mages gain power levels after creation provided they start with
at least one level of magery. It's much easier starting out with Level 1
mages than everyone shooting for Level 3.

4. Suggest EVERYONE invest in some sort of "special powers" -- magery,
psionics, cinematic martial arts, Luck, Extra Hit Points, etc.

5. Suggest multiple characters have healing capabilities especially special
things like magic and psionic healing. Possibly cinematic healing or
alchemy as well.

6. Make sure the characters spend some points on things like Allies,
Patrons, and Contacts. These are VERY useful to both the characters and the
GM (providing useful plot hooks and ways to provide information to players
in game).

Post by Tracy Soldan
Voodoo intrigued me, but I never "got" it...it just never clicked for me.
I'd use "standard" Magic rules, but if you feel you've got a good handle on
Voodoo, more power to you!

Agreed. Voodoo magic has a nice feel. I don't think it lends itself well
to cinematic style game, but I've never GM'ed it myself.

Post by Tracy Soldan
How about this: give them a "tryout" mini-campaign in your game world before
starting the campaign for real. Offer them some 100/-20/-0 templates with 40

If you're going to do this, I'd suggest just creating the characters for
them, like with a convention game. This way the characters are custom made
for your adventure and it will give them a sense of how characters are
designed. Once you kick of the real campaign they can design characters and
have their characters know the ones from the sample adventure -- Allies,
Patrons, and Contacts.

Post by Tracy Soldan
or 50 unspent points and the option to take more disadvantages and some

I do recommend setting aside some unspent points. These let them alter
their characters post game time. I wouldn't permit altering any of the base
stats except say one and only allow a raise of 1 level. Otherwise the
character changes too wildly. Also don't let them add any skill that they
should logically have used during the game. The alternative is to just let
them spend points as things come up provided it's appropriate for the
character.

GM: Devin (PC name). Hmm, no Swimming skill listed on your character sheet.
Of course, we haven't come up with anything so far where you've had to swim.
Wanna spend a point or two on swimming skill? Might help since you're
probably going to have to jump from the cliff and swim for it seeing as you
guys have no ammo left to fight the advancing zombie hoard and you're
outnumbered 20 to 1.
Mike (player of Devin): Yeah, you know I think my character learned to swim
when he was a kid. He took lessons at the Y. He was a pretty good swimmer
back then but he hasn't done any swimming in the past 5 years. Put a point
into swimming.
GM: OK, you have swimming at 13 now. Subtract a point from your unused
points. You've got nine unused points left to spend.

Post by Tracy Soldan
One thing to pay close attention to is the rate of Experience Point awards
(page B184). If you envision a high probability of character death, give

Personally I tend to award points directly to specific skills and
Attributes. Only pure roleplaying points get to be used on anything the
player wants. It adds more book keeping, but it also helps me keep track
easily of what players should be allowed to improve due to in game action.
Also you can be a little more liberal in point awards this way.

Post by Tracy Soldan
Also, remember that "defeating" a Monster doesn't necessarily mean
"killing/destroying" it. Returning that mummy's looted funerary goods and
sealing his tomb back up is more likely to put it to rest than making dust
puff up each time you shoot it.

Agreed. Not necessarily with the example, but definitely with the concept.
Also many monsters will come back if they are not properly destroyed. Of
course, major big bads should flee when they are definitely about to be
defeated. Good exit scenes can add to the drama and the set up for a sequel
often adds to the fun.

Post by Tracy Soldan
And finally, when things are going in a direction that will cause problems
"When in doubt, roll and shout!"
I.e., don't be afraid to fudge/cheat if it'll preserve the storyline! :)

Great advice.

[Mark Langsdorf]

Post by Nex
At some point in the near (6 month) future, i'm planning on starting a GURPS
Monster Hunter game for my local table top group, and while I have a lot of
player experiance, this will be my first try at GMing. And to top things
off, all my players are GURPS-Newbies.
Anyway, i'm wondering if anyone with some GURPS GMing experiance would like
to share any tips and/or suggestions? I'll just tell you all my plans, and
see what you think of them.
150 point characters, -45 in disads, -5 in quirks. Limited cinematic
(highly limited, just to give the characters a bit more of a chance against
the Unholy Hordes they'll be combating), limited psionics and magic allowed
(i'm unsure whether to use the standard magic system, or Voodoo. Ritual
magic would fit the game better, but its more difficult for the newbies to
grasp and less useful when killing monsters).
The PCs will be a small group of hunters living and working in a fictional
new-england city, working under the care of a pair of (married) retired
hunters. Since the PCs are working in secret, they'll have to cut back on
the gunfights and property damage, or they'll quickly be arrested and/or
shot by the local police.
Ok, so, what do you all think? Anything I should be cautious about? Any
suggestions?
Thanks

It sounds good, overall. I'm doing a similar game next year, though at
a lower point level with a bit less cinema.

One thing I would recommend is an attribute cap - no more than 100 points
in attributes, or only one stat over 13. It should help diversify the
characters some, since it will prevent everyone from taking DX 15 IQ 15
masters-of-all-trades. You might also want to consider listing all the
cinematic advantages, and tell the players that only one character in
the group can have any. That's a bit more a matter of taste: some people
like having 3 telepaths and two mages in a 5 person group.

-Mark Langsdorf

[James Duncan]

Post by Mark Langsdorf

Post by Nex
At some point in the near (6 month) future, i'm planning on starting a GURPS
Monster Hunter game for my local table top group, and while I have a lot of
player experiance, this will be my first try at GMing. And to top things
off, all my players are GURPS-Newbies.
Anyway, i'm wondering if anyone with some GURPS GMing experiance would like
to share any tips and/or suggestions? I'll just tell you all my plans, and
see what you think of them.
150 point characters, -45 in disads, -5 in quirks. Limited cinematic
(highly limited, just to give the characters a bit more of a chance against
the Unholy Hordes they'll be combating), limited psionics and magic allowed

...

Post by Mark Langsdorf

Post by Nex
The PCs will be a small group of hunters living and working in a fictional

...

Post by Mark Langsdorf

Post by Nex
Ok, so, what do you all think? Anything I should be cautious about?

Any

Post by Mark Langsdorf

Post by Nex
suggestions?
Thanks

It sounds good, overall. I'm doing a similar game next year, though at
a lower point level with a bit less cinema.
One thing I would recommend is an attribute cap - no more than 100 points
in attributes, or only one stat over 13. It should help diversify the
characters some, since it will prevent everyone from taking DX 15 IQ 15
masters-of-all-trades. You might also want to consider listing all the
cinematic advantages, and tell the players that only one character in
the group can have any. That's a bit more a matter of taste: some people
like having 3 telepaths and two mages in a 5 person group.
-Mark Langsdorf

I think it really depends on the setting. My sense is that he's going for a
more cinematic feel
I think you do want to strive for diversity and you don't want to have
masters of everything.
I am a big proponent of GM's setting limits and restrictions. As per my
previous post, I think
if you are going for a cinematic style game you should encourage EVERYONE to
have some
"special" ability. That way one player doesn't dominate things while
everyone else is relegated
to side kick status at best.

Here's what I'd do:

1. All characters must have Health of 12+.
2. Suggest some character templates and set some stats based on that. Say
limit DX and IQ at 14- (13- if you have power gamers in your group) except
for specific character types. The less likely you are to have power gamers
the less likely you are to need to be as restrictive with limitations.
However, the following quick and dirty templates will allow for a decent
range of different character types

Bruiser: ST 15+ (use enhanced ST table), DX 12+, IQ 13-, HT 13+; some
cinematic strong man/tough guy capabilities
Martial Artists: ST 10+, DX 14+, IQ no limitation HT 12+; Trained by a
Master, cinematic martial arts capabilites
Tinker/Gadgeteer: ST 14-, DX no limitation, IQ 14+, HT 12+; Gadgeteer
advantage
Mage/Witch: ST 12-, DX 14-, IQ 13+; HT 12+; Magery 1+ (note level 3 can get
abusive if left unchecked); starting magic spells at 15-
Shooter: ST 13-, DX 13+, IQ no limitation, HT 12+; lots of guns skills at
high level; Sharpshooter
Slayer: ST 12+, DX 13+, IQ 13-; HT 12+; various melee weapons; maybe Weapon
Master

Make sure various DIFFERENT characters have healing capalities, preferably
of different varieties -- mundane, psionic, magical, alchemical, Yin/Yang
Healing, etc.

Take a look at Wizards and/or GURPS Warriors for template ideas

[Gregory L. Hansen]

Post by Nex
At some point in the near (6 month) future, i'm planning on starting a GURPS
Monster Hunter game for my local table top group, and while I have a lot of
player experiance, this will be my first try at GMing. And to top things
off, all my players are GURPS-Newbies.

I've always kind of liked the idea of a monster hunter game where part of
the PCs' job is to decide what, if anything, should be done about a
monster in the first place. Start off with a few traditional bashing
scenarios, of course. But if there's, say, some werewolf thing (or
whatever monster you please) that's scaring some locals, but the werewolf
thing hasn't actually done anything to them and doesn't seem like it's
ever going to, the best solution might not involve silver bullets. That
makes it a little more of a "Men in Black" thing without the space aliens,
I suppose.

It can't just end like that. There has to be some resolution of a
problem, and there has to be some substitute for shooting the monster.
That's a little harder for the GM to make a game of. But it makes the
PCs' job more complicated, less like a D&D "kill all the orcs and take
their stuff" thing.

[b***@hotmail.com]

Post by Gregory L. Hansen

Post by Nex
At some point in the near (6 month) future, i'm planning on starting a GURPS
Monster Hunter game for my local table top group, and while I have a lot of
player experiance, this will be my first try at GMing. And to top things
off, all my players are GURPS-Newbies.

I've always kind of liked the idea of a monster hunter game where part of
the PCs' job is to decide what, if anything, should be done about a
monster in the first place. Start off with a few traditional bashing
scenarios, of course. But if there's, say, some werewolf thing (or
whatever monster you please) that's scaring some locals, but the werewolf
thing hasn't actually done anything to them and doesn't seem like it's
ever going to, the best solution might not involve silver bullets. That
makes it a little more of a "Men in Black" thing without the space aliens,
I suppose.
It can't just end like that. There has to be some resolution of a
problem, and there has to be some substitute for shooting the monster.
That's a little harder for the GM to make a game of. But it makes the
PCs' job more complicated, less like a D&D "kill all the orcs and take
their stuff" thing.

I'd recommend digging up some old "Stalking the Night Fantastic" material for
ideas.

Also,"Kolchak, the Night Stalker"
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0071003/

Nick Pollata's "Bureau 13" books are basicaly someone's Stalking game, written
down, and are mostly "How do we kill this?" but they can give you some ideas
on how to run a game like this.

[Jeff Suzuki]

Post by Nex
Anyway, i'm wondering if anyone with some GURPS GMing experiance would like
to share any tips and/or suggestions? I'll just tell you all my plans, and
see what you think of them.

If you haven't looked through it, GURPS Horror has a number of useful
suggestions. (I'm not sure if I'd recommend actually buying it...) One of them
is to have a prequel adventure using NPCs; I'd recommend this, especially if
you're new to GMing: it'll be a nice "practice" adventure to work out your
GMing style.

Post by Nex
Ok, so, what do you all think? Anything I should be cautious about? Any
suggestions?

It depends on what you're going for. For anything more sophisticated than "Find
the monster, kill the monster", there's my list of suggestions at:

http://www.geocities.com/jeff_suzuki/gamephil.htm

Jeffs

[Nex]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, its a big help.

To answer some questions: Yes, i'm very experianced with GURPS and a number
of other RPGs, but i've never GM'd before.

Yes, my game will be a bit cinematic, but not highly so... All the special
martial arts skills, along with increased number of attacks for TbaM and WM
are right out.

Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they don't
really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

And I am trying to get everyones character somehow "special", so far
(without any suggestions from me), i've got a True Faith and a
Sharpshooter... My other two players I expect to play a bruiser (weapon
master quite likely) and a telekinetic (he got addicted to psis under
another game system...).

And Jeff, I like the tips on your website, very good suggestions. :)

Thanks again everyone, if things go well i'll let you all know how things
go. :)

[Samuel Penn]

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they
don't really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not
going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

You sure? First time I ran GURPS (with players who had never seen
it before), they figured that trick out within about 5 minutes.

[James Duncan]

Post by Samuel Penn

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they
don't really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not
going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

You sure? First time I ran GURPS (with players who had never seen
it before), they figured that trick out within about 5 minutes.

Any power gamer will figure it out rather quickly. Unfortunately, often,
even those who aren't power gamers stubble upon this unintentionally just
because you've given them sufficient points and they want good stats to
ensure their characters are competent. To the uninitiated 15's seem good
but don't look abusive at first glance.

Post by Samuel Penn
--

http://www.bifrost.demon.co.uk/

[Joseph Michael Bay]

Post by Samuel Penn

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they
don't really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not
going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

You sure? First time I ran GURPS (with players who had never seen
it before), they figured that trick out within about 5 minutes.

That's 120 points in attributes (I guess 100 if you have ST and HT of 9);
what kind of dipstick allows that in anything but a high-powered game?

[Rupert Boleyn]

Post by Joseph Michael Bay
That's 120 points in attributes (I guess 100 if you have ST and HT of 9);
what kind of dipstick allows that in anything but a high-powered game?

Why shouldn't you allow that in a 100 point game? 100+40+5 leaves 45
points for skills and advantages. You could put 20-30 points in
skills, and thus have more points in skills than most normal people,
and still have 15-25 points of advantages - enough for a couple of
small ones or one big one.

I don't recall seeing any advice in the basic set saying you shouldn't
have 15+ stats except in high-powered games.

[Joseph Michael Bay]

Post by Rupert Boleyn

Post by Joseph Michael Bay
That's 120 points in attributes (I guess 100 if you have ST and HT of 9);
what kind of dipstick allows that in anything but a high-powered game?

Why shouldn't you allow that in a 100 point game?

Well, I think the suggestion for a 100 point game is no more
than either 80 or 100 in attributes. At any rate, that's what
I'm used to seeing.

Post by Rupert Boleyn
100+40+5 leaves 45
points for skills and advantages.

At the expense of being a bit frail (ST 9/ HT 9), sure. And
having some serious social/psychological/physical issues.

In any case, if you as GM feel that characters with high DX
and/or IQ are "abusive" (and I really don't, myself), you
can impose a 100 point attribute spending limit, or an only-
one-attribute-over-13 rule, or whatever. Or just say "sorry,
I think this character is too 'optimized'; maybe we could
change these things".

[Gregory L. Hansen]

Post by Joseph Michael Bay

Post by Samuel Penn

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they
don't really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not
going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

You sure? First time I ran GURPS (with players who had never seen
it before), they figured that trick out within about 5 minutes.

That's 120 points in attributes (I guess 100 if you have ST and HT of 9);
what kind of dipstick allows that in anything but a high-powered game?

Careful that you don't over-run the legal limit for number of points you
can have in skills versus age.

[Joseph Michael Bay]

Post by Gregory L. Hansen

Post by Joseph Michael Bay

Post by Samuel Penn

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they
don't really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not
going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

You sure? First time I ran GURPS (with players who had never seen
it before), they figured that trick out within about 5 minutes.

That's 120 points in attributes (I guess 100 if you have ST and HT of 9);
what kind of dipstick allows that in anything but a high-powered game?

Careful that you don't over-run the legal limit for number of points you
can have in skills versus age.

A problem if you have 100-point characters under the age of 13, perhaps,
and no points in advantages.

[Rupert Boleyn]

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they don't
really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

Actually, them not having met GURPS before doesn't mean you won't get
a munchkin character - the first time I struck GURPS I saw the
stat/skill issue about half-way through creating my first character.
As a result my fighter-mage character was as good a fighter as the
professional warrior (without using my magic), and had her spells as
well.

[Travis Casey]

Post by Rupert Boleyn

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they
don't really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not
going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking
DX and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

Actually, them not having met GURPS before doesn't mean you won't get
a munchkin character - the first time I struck GURPS I saw the
stat/skill issue about half-way through creating my first character.
As a result my fighter-mage character was as good a fighter as the
professional warrior (without using my magic), and had her spells as
well.

Personally, I've never liked the default GURPS method of using Fatigue to
power magic. Heck, I disliked it before there was a GURPS, back when I ran
_The Fantasy Trip_.

In TFT, I added an extra attribute -- Will -- and used it for powering magic
instead of Strength. That eliminated the "big, strong mage" problem for
me.

TFT also avoided the "skillful mage" problem, by having skills and spells
both be "bought" using Intelligence.

In a lot of ways, I think TFT was a better system than GURPS... but then,
I'm probably just showing my age. :-)

[Rupert Boleyn]

Post by Travis Casey
Personally, I've never liked the default GURPS method of using Fatigue to
power magic. Heck, I disliked it before there was a GURPS, back when I ran
_The Fantasy Trip_.

I don't like the way it's linked to ST for this reason. Changing to ST
-> hits, HT -> Fatigue fixes this - I don't have a problem with mages
needing to be healthy to power magic.

Post by Travis Casey
In TFT, I added an extra attribute -- Will -- and used it for powering magic
instead of Strength. That eliminated the "big, strong mage" problem for
me.

Tunnels & Tolls used to have this problem, too. Wizards were limited
to small weapons, but powered magic with Str. This meant you had these
wizards who did something like 2d6+30 damage (when fresh), and
fighters who did 4d6+20. We fixed this by having magic powered by Luck
instead.

[Nex]

Yeah, i'm using the ST=Hit Points and HT=Fatigue rules. Mages make more
sense, and vampires and other such creatures are tougher without spending
tons of points on extra hit points.

*Insert interesting signature here*

Post by Rupert Boleyn

Post by Travis Casey
Personally, I've never liked the default GURPS method of using Fatigue to
power magic. Heck, I disliked it before there was a GURPS, back when I ran
_The Fantasy Trip_.

I don't like the way it's linked to ST for this reason. Changing to ST
-> hits, HT -> Fatigue fixes this - I don't have a problem with mages
needing to be healthy to power magic.

Post by Travis Casey
In TFT, I added an extra attribute -- Will -- and used it for powering magic
instead of Strength. That eliminated the "big, strong mage" problem for
me.

Tunnels & Tolls used to have this problem, too. Wizards were limited
to small weapons, but powered magic with Str. This meant you had these
wizards who did something like 2d6+30 damage (when fresh), and
fighters who did 4d6+20. We fixed this by having magic powered by Luck
instead.
--
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

[ALuddy]

Post by Travis Casey
Personally, I've never liked the default GURPS method of using Fatigue to
power magic. Heck, I disliked it before there was a GURPS, back when I ran
_The Fantasy Trip_.
In TFT, I added an extra attribute -- Will -- and used it for powering magic
instead of Strength. That eliminated the "big, strong mage" problem for
me.
TFT also avoided the "skillful mage" problem, by having skills and spells
both be "bought" using Intelligence.
In a lot of ways, I think TFT was a better system than GURPS... but then,
I'm probably just showing my age. :-)

I actually bought GURPS Fantasy (the predecessor to GURPS Magic) just
to serve as a spell system for a modified TFT game (the spells in TFT
showed their Melee/Wizard Arena Duel background a bit too much), and
eventually decided to get the 2nd edition basic set as well and
abandon TFT instead. TFT was also missing an skill improvement system
(you improved your skills by getting higher stats, mostly).

On the other hand, I never thought splitting TFT's ST into ST and HL
was a huge improvement. And now what's one of the biggest gripes with
GURPS? DX and IQ are too powerful. And look at all the discussions
about basing perception or willpower on 10 plus advantages rather that
IQ plus advantages. Maybe Steve split the wrong stats...

[James Duncan]

Post by Nex
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, its a big help.
To answer some questions: Yes, i'm very experianced with GURPS and a number
of other RPGs, but i've never GM'd before.

Have you played a cinematic, multi-genre GURPS game before, especially one
with psionics and magic?

Post by Nex
Yes, my game will be a bit cinematic, but not highly so... All the special
martial arts skills, along with increased number of attacks for TbaM and WM
are right out.

Well, if you aren't going to allow cinematic martial arts I hope you
disallow magic or severly restrict it. Trained by a Master and Weapon
Master are rather expensive Advantages as it stands, especially when placed
in a modern setting. If you don't allow the extra attacks, I hope you've
either disallowed them or made them much cheaper.

Post by Nex
Luckily for me, all my players have never played GURPS before, so they don't
really have any idea how to munchkinize it, and I certainly am not going to
help them with that. I don't really have to worry about someone taking DX
and IQ 15 and making an uber-skilled character.

Power gamers can usually spot the abusive stuff in any RPG rather quickly.
Unfortunately in GURPS you can even stumble into them without meaning to if
you've got lots of points to spend and dump them into the main Attributes
(primarily DX and IQ).

Post by Nex
And I am trying to get everyones character somehow "special", so far
(without any suggestions from me), i've got a True Faith and a
Sharpshooter... My other two players I expect to play a bruiser (weapon
master quite likely) and a telekinetic (he got addicted to psis under
another game system...)

Given that you are curtailing Weapon Master, I hope you don't allow the
Sharpshooter advantage as it is highly cinematic and far more abuse prone
than WM and TbaM. Sharpshooter is the type of advantage you give if you
want to get into John Woo style gun fu ballet. Two handed pistol packin'
diving bullet-time fun and gun.

Putting any limits on the telekinetic? Psi use can get abused at the mid
to higher ranges. Also remember to balance things between different
abilities. Trained by a Master costs 40 points. Consider what 40 points
put into psi or magic will give you.

[Antoni Ten Monrós]

Post by James Duncan
Putting any limits on the telekinetic? Psi use can get abused at the mid
to higher ranges. Also remember to balance things between different
abilities. Trained by a Master costs 40 points. Consider what 40 points
put into psi or magic will give you.

Psychokinesis becomes abusable at levels 16+. before that, it'0s quite
useless and overexpensive. after that, it becomes way too cheap. I sent
him some reworked psichokinesis rules that I'm testing right now, with
excelent results, that both allow low levels to be quite usefull, and
caps the lifting power increase far sooner than the usual PK table, thus
making the late levels grant 1 point of PK strength instead of 10

[Nex]

Post by James Duncan

Post by Nex
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, its a big help.
To answer some questions: Yes, i'm very experianced with GURPS and a

number

Post by Nex
of other RPGs, but i've never GM'd before.

Have you played a cinematic, multi-genre GURPS game before, especially one
with psionics and magic?

Yes, a number of them actually. Not quite the same genre as i'll be
running, but they've combined psionics/magic/cinematics.

Post by James Duncan
Well, if you aren't going to allow cinematic martial arts I hope you
disallow magic or severly restrict it. Trained by a Master and Weapon
Master are rather expensive Advantages as it stands, especially when placed
in a modern setting. If you don't allow the extra attacks, I hope you've
either disallowed them or made them much cheaper.

I'm reducing the cost of full Weapon Master to 25 points, and single-weapon
to 10. I'll allow some specific cinematic skills (Blind Fighting, etc.) but
most of the more obviously strange ones (kiai(s?), etc.) that I don't think
would fit the theme of the game are out.

Trained by a Master I don't expect to come up. I have an NPC that could
have taught Weapon Mastery, but there arn't any local Weapon Masters, so a
player would have to have a <i>really</i> good story. IF there was a TbaM
in the game, i'd allow some more of the cinematic skills, but still no extra
attacks.

Post by James Duncan
Power gamers can usually spot the abusive stuff in any RPG rather quickly.
Unfortunately in GURPS you can even stumble into them without meaning to if
you've got lots of points to spend and dump them into the main Attributes
(primarily DX and IQ).

I luckily only have one sometimes-power-gamer in my group, and he's already
created his character, without cheesing it up. :)

Post by James Duncan
Given that you are curtailing Weapon Master, I hope you don't allow the
Sharpshooter advantage as it is highly cinematic and far more abuse prone
than WM and TbaM. Sharpshooter is the type of advantage you give if you
want to get into John Woo style gun fu ballet. Two handed pistol packin'
diving bullet-time fun and gun.

I'm still deciding on this.

Post by James Duncan
Putting any limits on the telekinetic? Psi use can get abused at the mid
to higher ranges. Also remember to balance things between different
abilities. Trained by a Master costs 40 points. Consider what 40 points
put into psi or magic will give you.

I still havn't decided whether or not i'm using standard magic, or Voodoo
ritual magic. If its ritual, then 40 points will get you Initiation level
3, which isn't particularly over power.

40 points will get you power 8 in one of the major psi powers. Still, not
really overpowered in my opinion. As Antoni pointed out, power 8
Psychokinesis can be rather weak in straight out combat, but players will be
creative. Even low-power pyrokinesis can fairly easily blow up a gas can,
and power 8 TK shield can give you a DR of 4... Not something to sneeze at.
I'll probobly cap psi powers at some point, to prevent high-power
cheesiness. At mid to high power levels, Pyrokinesis would be very bad for
any vampires around. :)

-Alex

[James Duncan]

Post by James Duncan

Post by James Duncan

Post by Nex
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, its a big help.

Well, if you aren't going to allow cinematic martial arts I hope you
disallow magic or severly restrict it. Trained by a Master and Weapon
Master are rather expensive Advantages as it stands, especially when

placed

Post by James Duncan
in a modern setting. If you don't allow the extra attacks, I hope you've
either disallowed them or made them much cheaper.

I'm reducing the cost of full Weapon Master to 25 points, and

single-weapon

Post by James Duncan
to 10. I'll allow some specific cinematic skills (Blind Fighting, etc.) but
most of the more obviously strange ones (kiai(s?), etc.) that I don't think
would fit the theme of the game are out.

Kiai is hardly abusive and it works well if you consider it to be a form of
magic employed by martial artists and restrict it to use against on target
at a time. However, dropping that one isn't a major problem. I just find
it distasteful that GM's are fine with psionics and flashy magic but some
how decide cinematic martial arts are just too over the top. Invisibility
Art is another one I'd only allow if it is considered a special form of
magic channeling. Same goes for Hypnotic Hands. I've always liked having
martial artists in a campaign, but they often end up taking a back seat to
psions and mages who typically have more power for the point costs.

Post by James Duncan
Trained by a Master I don't expect to come up. I have an NPC that could
have taught Weapon Mastery, but there arn't any local Weapon Masters, so a
player would have to have a <i>really</i> good story. IF there was a TbaM
in the game, i'd allow some more of the cinematic skills, but still no extra
attacks.

Being a big fan of the series, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and it's spin off
Angel, I really like cinematic martial arts as part of a monster hunter
campaign. I also liked the fighting in the movies Blade I and Blade II.

Post by James Duncan

Post by James Duncan
Putting any limits on the telekinetic? Psi use can get abused at the mid
to higher ranges. Also remember to balance things between different
abilities. Trained by a Master costs 40 points. Consider what 40 points
put into psi or magic will give you.

...

Post by James Duncan
40 points will get you power 8 in one of the major psi powers. Still, not
really overpowered in my opinion. As Antoni pointed out, power 8
Psychokinesis can be rather weak in straight out combat, but players will be
creative. Even low-power pyrokinesis can fairly easily blow up a gas can,
and power 8 TK shield can give you a DR of 4... Not something to sneeze at.
I'll probobly cap psi powers at some point, to prevent high-power
cheesiness. At mid to high power levels, Pyrokinesis would be very bad for
any vampires around. :)

My point is TbaM costs 40 points and does *nothing* other than give you
access to cinematic martial arts skill and grant you access to the Chambara
attack rules, which you seem determined not to allow your players to have
access. Given this a psion will actually get to do *something* with those
40 points while a martial artist won't. Of course, I like playing
psionic/cinematic martial artists.

Also, watch out for the single skill point costs.

Post by James Duncan
-Alex

[Antoni Ten Monrós]

Post by Nex
I still havn't decided whether or not i'm using standard magic, or Voodoo
ritual magic. If its ritual, then 40 points will get you Initiation level
3, which isn't particularly over power.
40 points will get you power 8 in one of the major psi powers. Still, not
really overpowered in my opinion. As Antoni pointed out, power 8
Psychokinesis can be rather weak in straight out combat, but players will be
creative. Even low-power pyrokinesis can fairly easily blow up a gas can,
and power 8 TK shield can give you a DR of 4... Not something to sneeze at.
I'll probobly cap psi powers at some point, to prevent high-power
cheesiness. At mid to high power levels, Pyrokinesis would be very bad for
any vampires around. :)
-Alex

I sent you via private email a mu house rules for psichokinesis, making
it far more balanced IMHO. They are in beta stages though, but they've
seemed to perform pretty well. If you're going to test them, please tell
me your results ok?

Anyway, they make low levels of PK more usefull, and highter levels less
overpowered...

[Brandon Cope]

Post by Nex
At some point in the near (6 month) future, i'm planning on starting a GURPS
Monster Hunter game for my local table top group, and while I have a lot of
player experiance, this will be my first try at GMing. And to top things
off, all my players are GURPS-Newbies.
Anyway, i'm wondering if anyone with some GURPS GMing experiance would like
to share any tips and/or suggestions? I'll just tell you all my plans, and
see what you think of them.
150 point characters, -45 in disads, -5 in quirks. Limited cinematic
(highly limited, just to give the characters a bit more of a chance against
the Unholy Hordes they'll be combating), limited psionics and magic allowed
(i'm unsure whether to use the standard magic system, or Voodoo. Ritual
magic would fit the game better, but its more difficult for the newbies to
grasp and less useful when killing monsters).
The PCs will be a small group of hunters living and working in a fictional
new-england city, working under the care of a pair of (married) retired
hunters. Since the PCs are working in secret, they'll have to cut back on
the gunfights and property damage, or they'll quickly be arrested and/or
shot by the local police.

Given the background, I'd go with ritual magic, as it better fits the
low-key approach they will have to take.

Brandon

[Blaine]

given the background, I'd go with ritual magic, as it better fits the

Post by Brandon Cope
low-key approach they will have to take.
Brandon

where are the rules for that?

[Antoni Ten Monrós]

Post by Blaine
given the background, I'd go with ritual magic, as it better fits the

Post by Brandon Cope
low-key approach they will have to take.
Brandon

where are the rules for that?

Gurps Spirits

[David Johnston]

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 23:39:12 +0100,

Post by Antoni Ten Monrós

Post by Blaine
given the background, I'd go with ritual magic, as it better fits the

Post by Brandon Cope
low-key approach they will have to take.
Brandon

where are the rules for that?

Gurps Spirits

Or Voodoo for an earlier model.

[Brandon Cope]

Post by David Johnston
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 23:39:12 +0100,

Post by Antoni Ten Monrós

Post by Blaine
given the background, I'd go with ritual magic, as it better fits the

Post by Brandon Cope
low-key approach they will have to take.
Brandon

where are the rules for that?

Gurps Spirits

Or Voodoo for an earlier model.

GURPS Old West 2/e and GURPS Deadlands: Weird West have somewhat cut
back versions for Indian shamanism. The Hellboy RPG (PbG) also has a
version of the ritual magic system (compatable with Spirits, IIRC, but
with fewer Paths and Rituals listed). The magic system in GURPS Castle
Falkenstein is more like the ritual magic system than normal magic
system, but it is quite different from what is in the previously
mentioned books.

A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

[r***@gmail.com]

Heyy anybody in heree

[John Dallman]

Post by r***@gmail.com
Heyy anybody in heree

Yes.

John

[Brandon Cope]

Post by Blaine
given the background, I'd go with ritual magic, as it better fits the

Post by Brandon Cope
low-key approach they will have to take.

where are the rules for that?

GURPS Spirits is the best source. GURPS Voodoo has the original ritual
magic system but it tied more to a specific setting.

Brandon